Greenbacks
Anders - I just now came to visit the site. I love the idea and it seems that you've gathered up some on the most prolific and addicted of the native trout fanatics! I hope the forum and community takes root and grows, I'll do what I can to contribute and feel free to syndicate my blog as well.
Now, to my topic. I'm heading out to Colorado in a few weeks for some backpaking and fishing in RMNP. Obviously, my target is the greenback. My plan is to hike up the Roaring River to Lawn Lake and camp there for a few days. I plan to fish the river, Lawn Lake and also Crystal Lakes (where I've read about big cruising fish). I'm also planning to make a side trip to summit Mummy Mountain. My question, though, is what are folk's thoughts given the whole stocking of the wrong fish issue that came up last year--did this include the Roaring River population? I've also considered either hiking up into Forest Canyon either from the Fern Lake Trail or higher up by coming down from Trail Ridge Road. Forest Canyon seems very rugged and, as far as I can tell, not many people dare to try to hike in. Are the Upper Big Thompson fish pure and not part of the stocking debacle?
Dave B
Don't believe everything you
Don't believe everything you read. ; )
If you have access to Trout magazine, read the article by Dr. Behnke on page 56 of the Winter 2008 issue.
Dr. Behnke refutes the study for a couple of different reasons. The study makes "hard" distinctions between the CR cutt and the greenback (either/or).
"Many of my doubts center around the genetic markers used to differentiate among the subspecies in the study. Genetic studies of greenback trout have been going on for years, and along the way cautionary red flags have been evident, but ignored. As I noted in my Winter 2004 column "Genetics: A Double-Edged Sword" a premature (and, I believe, wrong) conclusion regarding hybridization between Colorado greenback cutthroat trout and Yellowstone cutthroat trout led to the destruction of greenback brood stock that was to be used in restoration programs. In my opinion, these fish were innocent victims; the ancestral diversity of greenbacks and Yellowstone cutthroat trout makes it very possible that the Yellowstone DNA marker could occur naturally in both of them.
A similar problem exists with the most recent study. Researchers used nine samples from the South Platte and Arkansas drainages (native range of greenback) and six samples from the Colorado River basin. The study forced each sample into either a Colorado River or a greenback category. No room for uncertainty of this assignment was allowed."
Robert Behnke
If you can find the article, I recommend you read it in entirety. If you are searching for pure strain greenbacks, Behnke mentions the pure strain in the Little South Poudre River.
Good luck, RMNP is my favorite place to fish anywhere in the US - so much water so little pressure. If you were heading out after August 1, I could recommend an excellent grayling/greenback stream.
Chris
I'm also skeptical about the
I'm also skeptical about the study you refer to. Behnke presents some pretty compelling arguments. Adding to my skepticism is this report, claiming that there are greenbacks in Utah. It doesn't make any sense. I think the restored fish are probably the real deal and the molecular biologists have made some errors.
Also, I was just in RMNP yesterday, camping with the kids. It is incredible, if you can find a way to ignore all the dying trees. Roaring River is beautiful, and nobody on the stream. I caught some nice greenbacks there, there's some pics if you check out the trip report I posted.
What about catching some Colorado River cutts on the west side of the park, too?
I wouldn't mind meeting up, for a day, if you are interested. I'm only an hour away.
Let me know.
-Anders
I have my skepitism on the
I have my skepitism on the subject as well. I did a research paper on this exact topic last year in college and some things just didn't seem to line up with how the study was set up. The Greenback cutthroat are actually Colorado cutthroat thing went both ways too, with a population of Colorado cutthroat in the Gunnison drainage being classified as Greenbacks as a result of the study.
Dave the Roaring River is a great spot too fish for Greenbacks. Those fish are amazingly beautiful as is the scenery.
Anders - On that study I would really have to think that population is most likely an isolated Colorado River cutt population or an out of basin introduction. Part of the whole basis of classifying the Greenback is that they are native to the Atlantic side of the rockies. A population in Utah just makes no sense.
Thanks Guys
Anders - my itinerary is pretty tight for the Greenback trip. I'm flying in the evening of the 16th and meeting a friend. We'll probably stay near Estes Park that night and hit the trail early on the 17th. The plan on the 17th is to hike to Lawn Lake and fish along the way. 18th is Crystal Lake (I have visions of sight casting to cruising cutties!) and Mummy Mountain. My backcountry permit has room on it if you wanted to camp, or if you just wanted to fish the Roaring River on the 17th that would work too.
Dave
Hard to say
Wow, what a great site this is. I have fished Estes Park to include the Roaring River. I caught some nice Greenback trout (especially in the small canyon section), however I also caught one that looked more like a Brown than it did the Greenbacks I was catching. I emailed a young biologist and she stated to me that it was a CO Cut. So my point is, hard to say any more what is in these rivers.
Thanks for the great site!
Jamie
Colo River Cutts on the East Slope
There was some controversy a couple of years ago about whether biologists had misidentified Colo River Cutts as Greenbacks. Some researchers claimed that was the case based on molecular analysis. Others claimed their analysis was faulty. Story is here.
Either way, it would be pretty hard to ID conclusively from a photo. So I wouldn't necessarily accept the young biologist's conclusion.
Anyway, welcome to the site.
Anders